The Informed Traveler
The Informed Traveler
Advantages of Guided Tours & Touring Machu Picchu
According to a new survey from Globus Travel guided tours are becoming more and more popular. So on this week's show Travel Expert Onanta Forbes will join me to discuss the advantages of taking a guided tour versus doing it yourself. Then, speaking of guided tours, we'll get some insight and tips on visiting Machu Picchu, Peru from Adios Adventure Travel.
Well, hello and welcome to the Informed Traveler Podcast, a weekly travel podcast, where our goal is to help you become a more informed traveler. And I'm your host, Randy Charman. According to a new survey from Globus Travel, guided tours are becoming more and more popular. So in a few seconds, travel expert Onanda Forbes will join me to discuss the advantages of taking a guided tour versus doing it yourself. And then speaking of guided tours, we'll get some insight and tips on visiting Machu Picchu, Peru, which I think is high on almost everyone's bucket list. And it's one of those places where you just might need some advice on traveling there. But first, let's kick things off chatting with travel expert Onanta Forbes, who joins us each week to discuss some of the travel news and travel trends. You can follow her adventures on Instagram, Facebook, and ex at Onanta Forbes. OnantaForbes.com is her website. Hello, Onanta.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, Randy. How are you?
SPEAKER_01:I'm well, thank you. We're going to talk about this. Uh we're talking about guided tours. And uh the reason why is because uh Globus had a survey out saying that uh more uh people are enjoying guided tours, particularly Gen Xers and the younger groups, which kind of they're they're the ones that kind of want to do the do-it-yourselfers, don't you mind?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. But I think what um what they're finding is that for they're finding it appealing, they're finding it that it um excites a desire for cultural connections, access to historic, iconic landmarks, and key motivations. Like it's sometimes nice to go on a guided tour and skip the line. Like you can just go past all those other individuals that are just waiting to get in. Um, you know, this year uh a lot of people visited Rome, the Vatican, and that was definitely a highlight in some of my feedback from guests that have gone. They like the advantage of the uh of uh the convenience that it that it offers. And the survey highlights that um travelers are drawn to tours because all the logistics are handled, it's well designed, it's a balanced itinerary, and it takes the guesswork out of travel. And sometimes when you're an independent traveler, which is is is is as good as you know how you want to make it, it's sometimes nice to be told what you're looking at and why you're looking at it, right? And it kind of takes away the the burden of planning or booking because somebody else is doing it. And it it gives you a guided tour, gives you the best of both worlds, structure and flexibility. And the survey found that 60% of respondents value a good balance of free time and included activities on guided tours, and this allows people to experience curated highlights while enjoying the autonomy to explore on their own terms. And it's not always an easy balance when you're piercing together your itinerary independently. I could attest to this because I remember one time um going to India and having the opportunity with the tour company I went with, having access to um different sites like the Tajma Hall before the crowds came in. And it was a wonderful opportunity because crowds are uh sometimes are a little bit um distracting. They take away from the enjoyment and just the moment of being there. Um so I think it's a good way to look at it. You want to experience unique experiences that kind of go beyond the uh ordinary and guided towards often online access to places otherwise off-limits. Um discovering hidden gems or having surprises are fun because they have, I'm gonna say, the buying power to get behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Are difficult to arrange without insider knowledge. So it also says that um the survey says that 55% of the respondents consider small group tours the most attractive touring style. So smaller groups can also um foster a sense of camaraderie um as well as f facilitate richer cultural exchanges and and just overall experience for family and friends traveling together. So that brings up a good point that it doesn't have to be just a group of random people. Um, a lot of uh travel is multi-generational or just small groups with your friends and family. So that's kind of fun as well.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and there are a lot of guided tours, a lot of different types of guided tours. We've walked about, we've talked about uh walking tours, which I really, really enjoy. And I don't know if you've ever seen the movie If It's Tuesday, this must be Belgium. It's a it's an old movie, but it's it's quite funny. And it's it's on it's all about being on this big bus tour. And I think uh tour companies have really stepped up their game because you know it used to be sort of the stereotype the you're you're herded like cattle around to all these sites, and it's not like that anymore. There is a lot of free time and and you and you do uh get to enjoy things on your own as well as take advantage of uh having a guide with you.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's it. That's it exactly. And you know, choosing between a guided tour and a self-planned itinerary depends on your group's preference and priorities and travel style. So, guided tours, as the survey um you know sh shares, it it shouldn't be used as a niche choice. They can present, you know, their expertise, their convenience, their unique access, as we talked about. And as you say, the flexibility and the personalization. So I think a lot of travelers do look for that hybrid approach. They combine guided tours in complex destinations and then independent exploration um elsewhere. So it it's just what you what works for you, and also it could be as simple as a hop-on, hop-off tour just to get your orientation of the place where you're at. And then you can go and do your own thing. I have guests that really enjoy um taking advantage of sometimes local um destinations have guides that do it for free, and then you just pay them a tip based on what how you feel that the tour went and how much you learned and and whatever. But I think the most important thing is that you're out there, you're exploring and you're creating memories. You know, if you're a solo traveler with a partner or with a group, it's it's all it's all about exploring the destination and learning about the destination.
SPEAKER_01:And you read about the hop-on, hop off. I like those two. Those are walking tours I really enjoy. And yeah, especially if in a in a destination where you've never been before, maybe there might be even a language barrier or something like that. Um, it really helps to be uh part of a guided tour rather than doing it on your own.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Yeah, and it's uh it it it's there's the best of worst world both worlds. So it's basically the choice is yours. Um, and also, you know, planning your own uh uh itinerary, whether it's for your family or your group or a group of friends, it's still highly appealing. It lets you choose your pace. You can select your destinations and tailor experiences to everybody's interest. It can also be more budget friendly and also allows greater spontaneity, but um, you know, particularly those who relish having that control. And um there's some of us out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, there is. I've met a few.
SPEAKER_00:It's also good. Like I learned this from a neighbor I I have a long time ago. She goes, Well, you know, like you know, always choose a different way home. Like, you know, like venture off the beaten path. Like just if you see a road that kind of looks interested, why not go down it?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Onanda Forbes is a travel expert. You can follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and X at Onanda Forbes. OnandaForbes.com is her website. You can even book a guided tour with Onanda if you absolutely. Good stuff, Onanda. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:This is the Informed Traveler Podcast. I'm Randy Sharman. Just want to remind you of our website, theinformtraveler.org. That's where you can find our contact page if you have any questions or comments about the podcast. You can also email me too with any questions you might have or any show segment ideas. My email address is randy at the informedtraveler.org. And check out our social media pages too at facebook.com slash informed traveler, Instagram at informed traveler, or on X at Informed Traveler. That's where you'll find a number of videos and photos of our visits throughout the year and posts from other adventures. Plus, you can now sign up for our monthly newsletter. It's released at the beginning of every month. Our November issue is now available. Just go to our website, the informedtraveler.org. Click on the newsletter button, and it'll take you right there. Or better yet, you can subscribe to it and have it arrive in your inbox each month. Well, I think one of the places that ranks high on almost everyone's travel bucket list is Machu Picchu in Peru. It's also one of those places where it's probably a good idea to get some insider knowledge to help you plan your trip there. So joining us now to offer some insight and tips on visiting Machu Picchu are Jackie Witt and Bidel Hockeyway. They are the co-founders of Adios Adventure Travel, a company that specializes in tours to Machu Picchu and other areas of South America. Their website is audiosadventure travel.com. Hello to the both of you. Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_04:Good morning. Hey guys, good morning over there.
SPEAKER_01:And uh Vidal says over there because you are in Cusco. Are you not?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah, we are in Cusco, Peru.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent.
SPEAKER_04:Greetings from the Andes.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you very much. Um Adios Adventure Travel, I am looking at uh your website. Uh you uh have all kinds of destinations that you specialize in, but today we're going to talk about uh Machu Picchu. There's all kinds of things going on at Machu Picchu, and I think it is uh on just about everyone's bucket list, which we will talk about in just a moment. But tell me a little bit about Adios Adventure Travel, how it got started, and uh how you two got involved.
SPEAKER_02:All right, well, I'll start because um I was a teacher at a small school, and I took a group of students down to Cusco to do service projects. And um Vidal was our tour guide. And uh I had a bunch of uh boys, teenage boys, and you can only imagine how rowdy they were. And uh Vidal has this air about him where when he speaks with a soft voice, the boys just straightened right up and wanted to hear what he had to say say. So I kept taking more groups down and more groups, and then you know, finally we were discussing, well, should we, you know, do this as a business? Could we, you know, throw out a shingle and see if people will want to join us and come down here and in 2009 I set up a um licensed company in the US and Virginia and that's where I've been ever since. So Vidal may have his take on it. But what what is your side of the story, Vidal?
SPEAKER_04:Well I've been guiding in Peru for almost thirty years You know, and I learned to speak English hiking along the Inca trail. Over the years I set up in a small company and then it's when I met Jackie, as she mentioned, with a group of kids that came from the US. Like anybody that comes from a foreign area into an area that is different, I guess I get to see her panicking a little bit with those kids. So I just talked to her and say, listen, Jackie, I'll let me take take over. And uh yeah, that was that was the beginning of but slowly Jackie got involved, and I asked her, well both of us we agree that um at the beginning it was just like a help, but eventually later we say, like, listen, we have to organize this better because um it's not only us known as getting involved, other people that is coming, and it worked great, you know, because Jackie's over there. She um she can uh tell our guests on you know how it's like to be in Peru, how is the modus vivendus, and uh what kind of things are different, you know. This is like another um let's put it this way, it sounds like another world, but there are things that work slightly different. That for us is normal, it's it's okay, we are used to this. But you guys are in a different society where things can work slightly different, you know. So uh Jackie is there in order to help our visitors to understand a few facts and then they will talk to her, they will uh get in touch with her, and in that way they when they come, they are ready to kind of like understand those different things. And I guess that's all about traveling, you know, you're going to a different place in order to try to understand uh what is happening there, which is different on what happens normally at home, you know. That's how um all this started, and um uh I feel very fortunate that I met Jackie along the way, and uh especially that we become to be partners in Adios Adventure Travel.
SPEAKER_01:Uh well I am looking on your website, uh adiosadventure travel.com, uh South America Adventure Travel and Trekking Specialist is what it says. And uh today we're gonna focus on uh Machu Picchu. I have never been. Uh Jackie, I understand you've been there many, many times. You go there every year. So uh I feel I'm I'm gonna get a very good lesson on uh all about Machu Picchu. So what is it about Machu Picchu that uh you know it's almost on everyone's bucket list to to to go and see uh at least once in their lifetime? So what is the magic of it that that that draws everybody?
SPEAKER_02:From my perspective as a foreigner, um the fact that there are this massive area in the Andes Mountains that is still intact in its you know original form. There's been a few renovations, but when you go into the national park, there's there's no modern convenience, there's no electrical plumbing, there's no lighting. Um recently they started adding some wooden stairs with handles to keep people, you know, from trotting all over the stones so much and to reduce the wear and tear. But when you first see them, it really is breathtakingly awe-inspiring. I every time people say, Well, do you ever get tired of it? No, no, no. Every time I go, it takes my breath away to see that magnificent face in the middle of nowhere and we're allowed to be there and enjoy it, and that's you know what I like the most about it.
SPEAKER_04:Well, to me, you know, humans we are amazing, we can develop uh so much, and uh in one stage here in the middle of the Andes, a society called Incas it developed in Cusco, but then uh slowly they start growing, and right in the cloud forest they will choose uh a place in between the mountains, and they just say, like, here's where we want to build a city. And they develop this amazing city that is just sitting there. And the beauty is that it's the same way how it was when they built it, you know. Luckily, the Spanish never really made it there. You know, uh into those places, into the Americas is arriving uh Spanish, Portuguese, and and the result of the arrival of these new societies is a mixture, and and then now everywhere we find that influence, but in this area, you don't find that, you know. To start with, is uh it's a place that it's not really that easy to get there because like there's no car access to get there. So either you go hiking or either you go by train. So um it is amazing to see an ancient city that was developed in the 1400s and it's sitting there just like the way how it was before.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you you mentioned the access, let's talk about that because you do run a uh a couple of different tours, one by train and one by hiking. Uh so talk about uh just just the logistics of of getting to Machu Picchu uh and the different ways you can do it.
SPEAKER_02:This is my favorite intention. People think, you know, well, well, can we drive? There's gotta be a road somewhere. No, no, no, there's no road. You cannot drive there. You have to take the train, or there is a back door. I mean, obviously, there's the Inca Trail. So the Inca Trail, you go on foot, um, and there's a four-day Inca Trail hike, which is very strenuous, it's very popular. But surprise maybe not surprising, but there's still the same number of permits available now as there always have been. So the permits, you know, keep the crowds down. And then uh, if you want to come around what I call the backdoor route, that's kind of like my little favorite route. You um drive over a mountain pass down into the high jungle back there behind Machu Picchu, and then you can um see some small communities back there at about you know 7,500 uh foot elevation. Um, and and it's warm back there, so it's a different climate. And then you can walk like a three-hour hike from what's called a hydroelectric station into the um back of the village near Machu Picchu, and that village is awas caliente. So no matter how you go, uh most people come by train. Uh fewer people do hike the four-day Inca Trail, and then for people who are active travelers who like to walk or enjoy exploring on foot, there's a one-day version of the Inca Trail. And that's m one of my favorites because it's like a little mini adventure and you don't have to you know kill yourself hiking uh the four-day Inca Trail. So then I'll let Vidal give his um version of that access.
SPEAKER_04:Well going by Santa Teresa is the access that you uh you are talking about now, Jackie. And yes, it's one of the one of the um back doors as you mentioned. Uh happened that to get into Machu Picchu once again is either flight train or or hiking. But besides that, this area gets you into the literally you have to go into the jungle, circle this mountain, this Andes, and go up to the cloud forest again. So it gets you, it allows you to see different climates. The Andes um mountains is one of the largest in the world, and that is actually giving us different climates, microclimates around, and when you are doing this uh visit, you get to go into high passes that they are over 14,000 feet. Uh so you drive all the way up where it's just snow, and from there you drive all the way down into the jungle itself. From there, you kind of go around. It's a kind of like a long drive because what you do on a train uh in a couple of hours, you have to do it driving over seven to eight hours, you know, because you are circling the Andes, you gotta cross the river in a little bridge, but then to do that you have to drive all the way down and then all the way up. So that's that's something that people will not really understand because they say, Well, if I can if there's a train trucks to go there and takes only two hours, why can I not drive? Well, it the reason is because the Andes. And to cross the Andes, either you climb up to the mountain or you drill a tunnel through the Andes, but we don't have such a thing, you know? Yep, that's how it is.
SPEAKER_01:So how tough is the hike? And you mentioned there's the one day uh excursion walking or hiking, and then the four days, but how tough is the four days, though? Like, do I have to be pretty you know, uh pretty savvy outdoor person?
SPEAKER_04:You know, nowadays we have the staff that help us, and the staff is the porters, nowadays we have cooks, and those guys are the engine of the trails, of the hikes. They carry for us the tents, they they place chairs, they they provide us the food. So, all what we gotta do is just be able to go like an average of uh 12 to 13k in a day. I'm talking about like uh nine miles, and uh we go with our day packs, and our day packs, what we carry is just like little rain gear, little hats for the sun, little water snacks, you know to go through the day because the the rest of the gear, including sleeping bags, mattresses, tents, food, everything, is carried by the porter. So those guys are actually the ones that make it possible. And in the meantime, you just enjoy the Andes. But obviously, it's not really like you are just walking around, you gotta go either up or down. There's no flats in Peru, you know. No flat surface, either you're going up or down. But it's it's just amazing going through all those little villages that they are still on the first day. You get to see, for example, in the four-day hike, some villages from the people that still live there. But on the second and third day, there is no remainder of people. I mean, there's no no new people there. It's all what you find is this old Incan trail, uh a few ancient towns that they've been abandoned over there, and obviously, what you're enjoying the most is how rugged the Andes mountains it can be, how beautiful it can be. It's for people that love nature and outdoors, it's it's really nice.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh my wife and I were talking about uh the differences, and and she she says, Yeah, I'd like to try the the four-day hike. And I'm thinking, well, I'm maybe I'd rather take the train.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, let me interject for you and tell you that we do a lot of that where we have families or small groups, and some want to do the strenuous hike, some want to take the train, but then there's a middle ground too. There's the easy one-day Inca Trail hike.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, you have to do that, I think.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I that's about eight miles. Uh, you have to do it all in one day, and um you have to carry, you know, your backpack with uh everything you need. Um, but it's doable, so I I'm in my sixties and I've been doing it every year. Um, but but I'm in shape. Um you still have to be in shape, and you have to be in very good shape, I would say, to do the four-day Inca Trail. That's not for people who were thinking, Oh, I I like hiking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I that's what I figured too. I think people underestimate, you know, how how like the elevation for one thing and and all the other things that you have to take into account.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're you're gonna get up to 14,000 feet at dead woman's past, they call it. And um and s and interestingly, a lot of people understand now how having a long descent in those mountains can really be hard on your legs and your knees, your knee joints, you know, to be affected by that constant down, down, down, down, down, dropping down. So I hiked it in my 50s. Um and then I piked a few other multi-day treks up there. I piked a Loris Valley trek and um and that was uh uh with we had mules. Um and then there's a few other places. There's tons of hiking. I mean Peru is a nature lover's paradise. And regardless of people's level of fitness, as long as they can describe, you know, what kind of uh uh fitness they have, I can find a and and all, you know, and I work together to help people find the right hike for them. But there's only one hike that leads to Machu Picchu, literally on foot, and that is the Inca Trail, the classic Inca Trail four day or the short Inca Trail one day.
SPEAKER_01:Let's talk about the train now. What's that like? I mean it it's easy, that'd be my way of going.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, it is. It's about two hours from the village of Oyantitombo, and and in recent years they've started operating trains from the city of Cusco. But um a lot of people think you're literally gonna get on the train in Cusco, whereas no, you don't. There are a few trains that actually depart from Cusco, but most of the um services are bimodal now. So they have um buses, uh mini-buses, like 18 passenger buses that leave Cusco and transport you through the Sacred Valley in about uh two hours to the village of Oyante Tambo, and from there then you board the train for another two-hour ride into the village of Awas Calientes. Um and that's the gateway to Machu Picchu. So the train is very comfortable, it has a little um there's a restroom, you know, on board, and um the views are beautiful. And you know, and they just operate all day. They have departures early morning and right into the late evening. And now they have different classes of trains. They have uh, you know, there's the Hiram being in luxury train, which um only goes once per day in the morning and then returns once that day in the evening. And that's uh the one where you have uh I think a four-course dinner and you have different cars where you can get up and walk around and enjoy the uh the scenery and the experience on the train with the service. But most people use the um you know, for two hours they just sit in the trains with uh all the all the trains have uh panoramic windows so you can enjoy the scenery because it's um beautiful riding along the Warabamba River.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my bad. So um I gotta say trains you find for all the budgets. And the the one that you mentioned, Jackie, was like the Harem Bingham, so that's like um the top train that they have run by Perurail, but they are the average train, the one that we call the tourist train, it will run either um they call it Expedition or Vista Dom or Voyager, which is the service that Inca Rail has. So Peru Rail and Inca Rail are the companies that they run those trains, but those are trains that they run in a narrow gauge track. So uh in one stage yes you are dry you are going in this valley but eventually later gets down into the uh sort of little canyon and all what you see from the mountains is the river, train besides, and that little canyon. And um they don't really run uh so fast because the fact that it's um going um just besides the river and besides it's just the mountain, they kind of they cover like uh 60k in a couple of hours, so they go slow and they kind of go showing the beauty of the Andes, and along the way, obviously, you get to see some sites, and uh there are some ink sites that they've been abandoned, but uh you still see all those uh terraces, structures, so it is a beautiful ride.
SPEAKER_01:So now, once you're there, what do people need to know? Like when you're actually at the site of Machu Picchu, how long can you stay? Uh what are some of the questions that come up?
SPEAKER_02:Well, let me address the restroom first. Yeah, yeah. Uh because this is very important. So at the entrance gate, so from the let's go back to the village. So everybody arrives in the village except the hikers. The hikers come in from the sun gate above Machu Picchu on foot, whether it's the four-day hikers or the one-day hikers, they all come in from above, and that's that's my preference is to do that. But the majority of people come in by train um and they take the shuttle bus for a 30-minute ride up to the main gate. Now, the main gate is an area where there's a little cafe, there's um uh the main entrance to circuits one and two, and then there's a lower entrance and the exit gate in which um which goes into circuit three. So, right in that area is the restroom, and that's the only restroom in the park anywhere. So the first thing I do when I get off that shuttle bus is I go get in line for the restroom immediately because that's what everybody is eventually gonna figure out when they get off the bus. But I'm already gonna be in line. Uh so you want to hit the restroom before you go into the park because if you're inside the park and you need to go, well, you have to exit. And if you exit, you're done. You can't go back in with the same ticket. So that's the thing people need to understand.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's that's probably the best tip right there. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's true. Because if you're if happened that along the way you need to go, then you just have to exit the park, but then they don't really allow you to go back. So the tickets are just one way, and the the entire area is set up in the way that is just like one-way path, and then once you get out, you're out.
SPEAKER_01:So, how long is uh is the stay? Like, oh uh is it available?
SPEAKER_02:Can I um Vidal? I just thought of something I want to make clear because I talk to a lot of people buying tickets, and sometimes people buy their own tickets, sometimes they ask us to buy the tickets. And one thing people now have to understand is there are tickets, entrance tickets into Machu Picchu that do not include access to the actual ancient Inca City, and that is on Route 1. So none of the Route One, Circuit 1, A, B, C, D, none of those tickets provides access to the ancient city. Those tickets are only for viewing from above, what they call the classic view, the panoramic view, and then um three of those tickets have a hike. Two of those hikes are um, three of those hikes are closed during the low season and only open during high season. So it's a little complicated to you know be aware of all these factors when choosing tickets, and that's where I help a lot of people that call me to um help them pick the right tickets. They don't want to miss the ancient Inca City.
SPEAKER_04:And that's true. Let me just like um add it on. I met a lot of people that they came and they were like happy because they got a ticket. They say, like, oh, you know what? I need our guide service, and I I got my tickets, and I when we say, like, okay, can I see your ticket, and then you realize that they got the circuit one, and that's like just the overview of the city, and they feel like uh they feel a lot of people will say that's a ripoff because you you don't really enter into the city, you just see it from above, and uh some people get so disappointed because they are like, I mean I took a plane from my country here into Cusco, the train and everything, and and you're telling me that I cannot get in. So they don't realize that.
SPEAKER_01:So make sure you got the ticket that you want.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I guess make sure that you understand what kind of ticket you're getting.
SPEAKER_01:How big of an area are we talking about?
SPEAKER_04:Then when you start exploring uh the site, you know, this is a place where easily the way how now is regulated, uh they have circuits one, two, and three, but uh easily in two days uh you still you're still exploring the area because um um it's uh the circuits they will lead you into, for example, into the the whole city. You go you go and walk into houses, uh, areas, temples. But to see the from another angle, you can climb either the Wainapicu mountain, which is across or the other mountain of Machu Picchu. And to do those hikes, you will need at least uh two, three hours. So then while you are getting there, while you're exploring a little city, while you do the climb there, you have already one day. Um but most of the people will have like a day, and out of this day, over 90% of the guests, I guess, they spend literally only like um two hours. Um, but obviously, the what happens over there as soon as you enter, they will not really ask you at what time is your ticket. So you enter and then you can start exploring around, you can just like get into areas where there's no rangers, and then you can still slow down your rhythm, and then you can spend over three, four hours easily. Normally, when we are having our tours, we go from Cusco, so we don't really we are not really like um running trying to finish this. So we excuse me, we try to see as much as we can, explore the entire area, and we easily spend up to three hours or four hours, and depending, you know, how how is the interest of um our guests in order to see the place. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So what it involves so Randy, I would say the literal size of the park is I've seen it estimated at thirty-four acres um of the actual city. Which, you know, is winding up and down little steps and paths. And there's a trend now, a travel trend I will call it, in the last couple of years, that since they changed these circuits now, people are trying to do these one-day trips from Cusco. The travel time from Cusco to Machu Picchu is five hours each way. That's if everything goes according to plan. If you get any delays on uh the train or slow down and through uh driving through the Sacred Valley, it could take a little longer. So all these people now are spending five hours to get there. They hustle up, then they go in, and they go in for two, maybe three hours at most, then they have to leave right away, get back to the train, and then take the train back to Cusco. So these people are doing one-day trips, which I think is not nearly as much time as you need. I would advise doing at least two days one night. So that's our favorite minimum standard is to take people in the day before um by train or if they're hiking, and spend the night in a hotel in the village, and then take the bus in the morning and after breakfast, you know, go up there and explore, and then have you know most of the morning up there because um it's misty in the early morning, so it uh often burns off, and that brings up the seasonal um weather climate. It's cloudy in the winter, what we call the winter in the northern hemisphere. Um and then you wanna you know get some shots of Machu Picchu with sunshine, ideally, and then you go down to the village by train around midday, and then you take your train back to Cusco and you get back there by 6 or 7 p.m. That's that's a two-day, one-night trip. So that's uh preferable in my opinion.
SPEAKER_04:You know, Randy, you're asking how big is this? Machu Picchu is an uh is a huge area that is protected by the government. So this is a uh a UNESCO um uh uh heritage area that is protected but not just by the Peruvian law. It goes up to 80,500 acres. So I'm talking about like uh um uh 325,000 kilometers. But then uh the area that you get to see in the um in Machu Picchu, it goes around uh 10 hectares. Uh uh, we're talking about um twenty-five acres more or less, but you don't get to see everything, you know, they are only a small spot, it's a small, it's like the tip of the iceberg, what you get to see because you keep going this way, there's another trail, and a lot of them are closed because we had cases when people got lost, really. So they went into this little path and then they just they couldn't really get back, and now because that they kind of closed most of those little access into all those different areas, including the hikes, they get to be open only during the high season because um a lot of times the government will not really put rangers in every little pathway that is there, yeah. Yeah, so it's the and they wanna just keep them safe, and that's why they open only certain areas.
SPEAKER_01:Is there a better time of uh year to go?
SPEAKER_04:Um, if I can take this, is uh you know, I really like right after the rain season, after February, March, April for me are the best. Why? Because there is so much um so many orchids to see, there are lots of different birds to look around that they are around the area. Uh I like it better at that time of the year. But obviously, um when someone is traveling, a lot of times they wanna they are afraid of little rains and they will choose to go like June, July, August. But um the park is open year around. The only time that they don't allow the hikers, much picture is open year-round, but um the hike it gets to be closed during um February because they want to do maintenance and there is more a lot of rain in the area.
SPEAKER_01:Uh both of you have been doing this for a very long time. Uh what are the changes have you seen over the years? Changes.
SPEAKER_02:Well yeah. I'll say that uh the the most profound change is of course in the beginning you could walk all over the park, you could come in and out, use the restroom, go back in, you could spend an entire day there if you wanted to. And um you could get up close to some of the um features, which you know now they're kind of roped off and protected. So that's you know, that's one of the biggest changes I've seen. And then I want to make it uh help people understand that there's this um concern about over tourism. And one of the uh things uh one of my little hobbies, side hobbies, is I've been tracking the number of tickets that have been available every year. They release tickets in January. So just so people know, so you cannot buy a ticket right now for 20 entry in 2026. Those tickets go on sale in January. But um I was going to I'll let but all why don't you enhance what I was just saying there?
SPEAKER_04:You know, to start with, like the town of Aguascalientes, it is a new town, it's a town that it's been born with the tourism industry. So the very first time that I went there, they I saw just like little stands where they used to sell water and stuff that tourists they used to get. Little by little they become to be little restaurants, and slowly, as the years they were going, they built a little town where normally you see like restaurants and the first floor rooms where they host tourists and the second floor, and then the third floor is where people stay, and that's how it is mostly all the town. There are few like uh proper hotels, like uh a hotel with three stars or four stars, they you can count them. So um it changed a lot on regards to the town, but if you see like the the the citadel, um uh in at the beginning they used to say, like, listen, if you get into Machu Picchu, you get a full-day ticket. But if you show this full day ticket, the next day you have like a half price discount for your next ticket. So people were on their way to encourage people to stay a little longer to these few tourists that they were around there. And uh over the years, obviously, as the time was going, they will say, like, well, no, it's just valid for a day, and then it is valid only for the morning or afternoon. So we had a few couple of years when we had tickets valid only morning or afternoons, and slowly now the tickets are valid only at certain hours. So if you get a ticket for let's say six in the morning, and you show up there after seven, they'll they'll kind of like make you way around. You know, they say, like, well, your turn is over, and you're like, wait, I couldn't come here. The shadow, you put any excuse, uh, and then they make you sign this, sign that, they they really bother you. So now the tickets are per hour, there are budgets of tickets that they sell. Uh that's one of the big differences. Before you were allowed to go anywhere, literally go up and down, exit the park, but nowadays they are like one-way path. So literally they they have like the people like sheep and they hurt the people, push them out, you know, because there's a new group coming. So that's uh I guess the main difference that before we were allowed to go anywhere, but nowadays there are only certain areas where you can go, and uh they try to make that you get in and you get out at certain after a couple of hours.
SPEAKER_02:So one thing I was gonna tell you, Randy, is that um now the number of tickets available per day uh is the same as it's been for the last 10 years. So people so I know how to count the tickets and I do it every year in January. That's like my little project. So I've been sounding this horn that people are saying, Oh, it's overcrowded, it's overcrowded. And I don't want to tell people that there's not times when it's you know congested in the village usually or in other places, you know, getting in and out. But generally speaking, once you get inside the park, because of the one-way path, you don't have two-way traffic now on these steep paths, and it used to be awful with the bottlenecks there, you don't have that anymore. Um, and the tourism uh management is a big, you know, that's a big job. And the people that manage the park sometimes can get overwhelmed when you have uh excess crowds. Like in August, it gets very, very crowded because the Peruvians have one of their annual holiday schools are out, and they also show up there. There's all the uh North Americans and Europeans who are on holiday in August. So for people that have the choice to avoid August, that's uh an ideal or plan early if you're gonna travel in August. But over tourism is not the issue in Machu Picchu. If there is an issue, it's management, crowd management. And uh that's something they're continually working on, like with the buses and with um and these entry tickets, hourly entry tickets are one way they um spread people out. So now people aren't all trying to go in at six a.m. There used to be hundreds of people trying to get in at six.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um now it's this you know, this many at six, this many at seven, this many at eight. So it spreads them out through the entire day.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think too, there's this fine line between preserving the past and then also showcasing it so people can learn from it, right? There there's seems to me this this uh back and forth constantly.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I guess um regulations it made it that um we had to find a way to handle tourism, and uh nowadays they are a little more aware of trying to preserve because this is our world heritage. We want to make sure that our kids also they can enjoy this area. And uh and um yeah, not only Peruvian organizations, international organizations also they'll go and make sure that they are controlling this because they have also you can buy tickets also in town for but then you cannot just buy today for this afternoon. You have to get there the previous day in order to buy a ticket for the next day. So that's also another budget of tickets that they have over there if you're if you're a last-minute traveler. But the only problem there is that you don't know how many people they'll be thinking that I'm going to go to get a last-minute ticket. Because it happened that we cannot, as a traveler, sometimes we have schedules, you know, we have a plane departing, a train departing, but if you're hoping to get a last-minute ticket, your plane is like a roulette rushing, you know, Russian roulette that we call exactly well, it's a long way to go to gamble on getting a last-minute ticket, that is for sure.
SPEAKER_01:So I don't know why I would want to go that route.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but you know, sometimes you find some guys, some families that they are trying to do that, but I won't really suggest it. I would rather say, listen, um, try to find um some local experts and say, Listen, I would like to go there. Uh let me know when they are. Because there are companies also that they will say, Listen, uh, we'll get into the town of Aguas Calientes and you'll uh you'll get a ticket for the next day. But then can you guarantee that that that will really happen? Yeah, there are occasions when I saw that people they've been waiting there for two nights, two days, and then the third day is when they manage to get a ticket. But it's not only the the the issue of the ticket, then after you get into Machu Picchu, the next concern is to get out of the town because the trains get to be uh sold out, and that's when you are spend like over four or five days just trying to see, and um yeah, it's not really like something that I would happen that doesn't happen often.
SPEAKER_02:That did happen in August, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but I mean it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Well that's why you have people like yourselves to do this, uh because it's it's this it's one of those trips. Uh you know, you don't want to you know assume that you can handle everything. I I think I would want people in my corner to to answer all the questions and who have been there like you two. Uh so I appreciate you doing this. And and so uh if if people are thinking of going to Machu Picchu and the whole area of Peru and exploring that, I I think that to have a uh a knowledgeable tour guide would be very, very helpful.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, this will be with you. Yeah, he's got a team of tour guides.
SPEAKER_01:Uh Jackie Witt and Videl Hockaway are founders of Adios Adventure Travel. You can go on their website, adiosadventure travel.com, all kinds of different uh tours and different ways to get to uh Machu Picchu. Well, actually, only two, either by hiking or by train. Let a run do you realize that that's one thing I've learned. There's only two ways to get there. Uh and I still think maybe I could do the one-day uh hike, but uh the four-day, I'm not sure I could handle that. But the train would be really nice.
SPEAKER_02:So that's the other thing to be aware of on that short one-day hike. It's only one day. Yeah, it only goes one way, and you hike in, you see Machu Picchu, and then you take the train back.
SPEAKER_01:That's see, that's my way of doing it. I think that would handle that way with this. So I do appreciate you doing this. Uh, again, you can check out their website, adiosadventure travel.com. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you, Videl.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you, Randy.
SPEAKER_01:If you have comments or questions, we'd love to hear from you if you have a Q idea to that along as well. My email is Randy.