The Informed Traveler
The Informed Traveler
Returning To Jamaica & Biking In The Netherlands
Travel expert Onanta Forbes is in Jamaica this week as she was invited to the Sandals-hosted BackToJamaica2025 event at Sandals Dunns River Resort. So on this week's podcast we'll check in with her and special guest CJ Smith from Sandals Resorts. Plus, if getting more exercise is in your plans for the New Year how about doing a family bike trip, Travel Writer Lisa Lucas did just that with her family cycling through the Netherlands so Lisa will join us to share her experience and offer some tips.
Well, hello and welcome to the Informed Traveler Podcast, a weekly travel podcast where our goal is to help you become a more informed traveler. I'm your host, Randy Charman. Our resident travel expert, Onette Forbes, is in Jamaica this week as she was invited to the Sandals hosted Back to Jamaica 2025 event at the Sandals Duns River Resort. So in a few seconds, we'll check in with her, and apparently she will have a special guest joining her as well. Plus, if getting more exercise is in your plans for the new year, how about taking a family bike trip? Travel writer Lisa Lucas did just that with her family cycling through the Netherlands. She also wrote about it, so Lisa will join us later to share her experience and offer some tips. But first, let's kick things off. Chatting with travel expert Onanta Forbes, who joins us each week to discuss some of the travel news and travel trends. You can follow her adventures on Instagram, Facebook, and ex at Onanta Forbes. OnantaForbes.com is her website. Hello, Onanta. Hello, how are you? I'm well, thank you. Uh tell us where you are, and we have a special guest today, so I'll let you uh introduce him.
SPEAKER_04:Right. So I am very fortunate to be in Jamaica, and I am one of 21 Canadian travel uh advisors who was invited to the Back to Jamaica 2025 event, and we are part of a 200 plus uh contingent. And so the purpose of this is to um recognize Jamaica Jamaica's recovery from the her category five um Hurricane Melissa that happened here um what November 28th?
SPEAKER_03:A month ago, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So this is uh kind of showing people that it's okay to come to Jamaica. I want to just start our conversation. There's a there's a in Jamaican Pachua, it's people say soon come. It means that it's going um people are gonna be with you soon. But I want to switch it around and tell our guests, our read, our listeners and our travelers to come soon to Jamaica.
SPEAKER_02:I love that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we're ready. We're ready. And CJ and I go back a long time. Did you know that CJ used to be my when he was a baby? He was my sales rep in Calgary, and I'd chase him down. I'd put out an A C B for CJ. I tell my staff, I need to see CJ. If he comes into the office, he has to call me, and he did.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it is no joke. It is, Brandy, it is no joke. The stories I could tell, the history is serious.
SPEAKER_02:I thought she was gonna say she was your babysitter.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, not on that. Nobody would be funny when her office, she literally would send out a message, and as soon as I show up into any of her locations, they'd be like, Onantha's looking for you. She put an APB out. Okay, give her a call. And that was always funny. It was always good. But we've always had a great relationship, and it's it's fantastic. We had the opportunity to to have Onanta join us, and I'm glad she said yes. I really am glad she said yes.
SPEAKER_04:So the opportunities here um for us to look at uh the different facilities and the um basically the condition of the island and of the resort. And you know, we it is about a 90-minute bus transfer from the airport to um uh where we are right now. But honestly, Rand, if you didn't know there was a hurricane a month ago, other than a few trees that are blown over and some roofs that have blue tarp on it, you wouldn't guess. So kudos to the Jamaican people because they have pride and resilience and they are you know getting things ready for guests to come.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we've discussed this uh in past podcasts, Onanta, about the conundrum that people have uh when a disaster hits a certain area. Uh is it okay to go back? Uh and so uh it sounds like this is this is the kind of event that uh says uh yeah, it is okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, Randy, what what what we found is that the you know our executive chairman had the brilliant idea of saying, hey, you know, we're we're scheduled to reopen three uh actually we're scheduled to reopen five of our eight resorts here in Jamaica on the 6th of December. So for us, we were super excited at the opportunity when he said, How about we invite our travel advisors and key industry partners to join us in destination so they see what the recovery looks like, so they can get that confidence in understanding what the product is all about and the fact that though we may have been impacted a little bit over a month ago, we've done tremendous work to get the island up and running and back. They even did tours today for crying out loud. So we were super excited that people were able to go out and experience the product. And Onanta's social media is blowing up with all the great content.
SPEAKER_04:Well, there's a lot of great content to share, and today um uh I was the fortunate um participant in a spa experience. And you know that term glowing? Yeah, I'm glowing after my facial. And I really wish um my fellow Canadians could come and join Sandalsden uh River and um experience that, but also experience the resort. Uh the resort is beautiful, it absolutely has so many amenities for you, like lots of different restaurants. I had lunch in the jerk shack. So if you like jerk chicken or um beef patties, it's yummy. And um there's there's a beautiful pool, there's swim out um room categories for you to enjoy. Um so as um CJ said, there's lots for you to do on and off the resort. So uh it yes, there's times um and that some places are not ready yet, and that includes South Coast, and they're working hard. But what I really like about Sandals as a brand, yes, it's luxury, yes, you're gonna get great service and beautiful staff, but it cares about Jamaica. It you know what? It it takes care of their employees that were affected, and um they are staging some really good uh philanthropic events. Like we were encouraged to bring um school supplies for three to 12-year-olds uh for to give to people who unfortunately were affected by the hurricane, and we're gonna um stop uh like stop stopping. Yes, tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to that. So um, so not only will travelers and guests uh get a great product and five-star accommodation, but they're gonna they're gonna support a brand that cares for Jamaica, which is super important in today's world because it's not all about money.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, exactly. And I'm glad you mentioned uh you the number of resorts that Sandals has in Jamaica. Um I believe you said eight. So yeah, you're you're you're all over the place there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. You know what? Jamaica is home. Jamaica is where the brand was was born in 1981. So 44 years going to 45. And so for us, Jamaica is home. So we've got um eight resorts here in Jamaica, of which, like I said, five are reopening on December 6th. So we're super happy um that that's the case. And of course, the other three we're do taking the opportunity to do tremendous um enhancements. So it is scheduled to reopen, they're scheduled to reopen in May of next year. So we're really excited about the opportunity um ahead, but also more importantly, we're we're appreciative of the great support that the travel agent community, the traveling community as well. So clients who are listening to your listeners, literally, that look to this podcast for great insight, for great advice, just for great updates, are gonna love the fact that you've got a brand that's really reinvesting in the destination, but more importantly in its people, and also inviting you to come and see what we're doing. Hold us accountable. So we're really excited about this opportunity.
SPEAKER_02:I was just gonna say this isn't the first time that Jamaica has been hit by a hurricane, but it seems to me it's the first time that any of like this kind of event was held to to sort of uh showcase Jamaica saying we're okay. Uh we need still need some work to we have work to do, but but uh yeah, you're welcome to come.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know what, Randy, what a category five hurricane has never really hit Jamaica. As a matter of fact, a character category five hurricane, what is that? So, you know, the the the catastrophic of it all is is incredible, you know, and there has been some significant impact to the island, but what it is, the the country has taken it as an opportunity to reinvent, to reorganize, to take the opportunity to also take us into the next level of innovation for the island. So there's some great ideas. I'm not with the Jamaica tourist boards, I won't spill them, but there's some brilliant ideas that they're gonna be using because you know, uh, you know, Onanta mentioned at the beginning that the Jamaica people are so resilient, and resilience is the word that we've been using. It's been one month since this hurricane, and in that one month, we have seen tremendous transformation as it relates to the hotel sector. The North Coast of Jamaica is for the prime hotel sector of the island. It is also a driving force for the GDP of this country. And so, um, with hospitality, one of the things that the Jamaican people know how to do is to welcome people home and to have them feel that warm that the Jamaican people know and love, but also more importantly, to share that culture, the the vibe that Jamaica brings to people that once you touch it, once you go, you truly know um what it's all about.
SPEAKER_04:And you could really sense that. So upon arrival, I don't know if every single staff member of Sandals Down Hill uh was singing welcome to Sandals to all of us yesterday, but it was such a lovely treat to um, you know, arrive, and they're all singing and uh greeting us with um gusto and warmth. And you know, you talk to individuals in my day today, um, just exploring the property. And yes, they have been touched by a pretty massive event, but they're so happy to have us back and to encourage our the get our guests and our um the travelers, our listeners to come back to Jamaica. So it's not just um a marketing ploy, it's a true sense of Jamaican spirit, and that's what I would like to share with everybody is uh um the people, the music, the food, you can connect. And if you've been here before, you're gonna love it because you know what to expect. And if you are thinking of coming, please call me.
SPEAKER_00:Please call me. Please call Donanza. Yes, you know, Rand Randy. What's absolutely interesting is, you know, I I've interacted with a few clients who felt who had stuff booked that felt guilty. Guilty was the word they used. I felt guilty about coming back to the island so quickly, um, not giving it an opportunity to explore more recovery and so forth. And I had to stop them in the middle of the tracks and say, thank you so much for the concern. But really and truly, if you'd like to participate in this effort, two things. You can participate with a foundation, the Sandos Foundation, or you can literally travel. Because that's the best way you can do it. Because tourism is such a major um industry for the people of Jamaica, traveling actually keeps them fully and gainfully employed, which is another thing, by the way. And let me just do a quick Sandos plug. We did not lay off any of our team members during this time away, and we, you know, we put so many systems in place that for dignity purposes, I won't go into in depth about it. However, there's so many systems that they put in place to support the team members that have been impacted throughout this process, including, by the way, and this one I will say, including having physicians and therapists involved in the resort come onto the resorts and do trainings and so forth and just speak to them because sometimes they just need an outlet. So it's a it is a family here at Sandals and Beaches Resorts, and it's it's difficult to sometimes express that in our commercials, but uh once you touch it and experience it yourself, you understand it.
SPEAKER_04:And you can see that from the top of the leadership with Adam Stewart, who's the executive chairman of uh Sandals. Um, and you know, I watch on YouTube and on different um social media him going out and meeting the people, going to ground level and talking to them. And you see the um, I think he's even part of uh the government's task force in Jamaica to uh, you know, help lead what is necessary to rebuild and to regrow. But um at the end of the day, um, as I say, you know, Jamaica is a great destination to come to, but also it's good to work with um preferred suppliers such as Sandals and Beaches in um bringing our guests to the destination so they know that their, you know, their hard-earned money, traveling dollars, is is you know to good use because they're supporting a great island, which I have to say, I don't know if you know this, Ryan. I was born here.
SPEAKER_02:So it is coming home for you.
SPEAKER_04:It is.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you could I I wish I could have seen her face when she got to the arrival and heard them say welcome home. I I wish I could have seen your face.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, and welcome home means eating to me. So I've already had two Jamaican patties, I've already had jerk chicken, a few rum punches. So check, check. So it's you know, so um it is a great destination, um, a good feeling. It's warm, it's welcoming, it's not only beautiful, but it's the energy behind Jamaica as well.
SPEAKER_02:And so you reiterate again the two things that people can do to help out. There's the Sandals Foundation and there's uh just going to visit.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So the Sandals Foundation.org is how they can contribute uh to the process. And by the way, with the Sandals Foundation, 100% of donations go into an initiative because the actual overhead of the foundation is covered by Sandals Resorts International. So for Sandals Foundation, 100% of donations actually goes back into an initiative. And if they want, they can totally research sandals foundation.org has lots of information and they can totally research that. And then the second thing, which is the most important, is to travel. Call Onanza, get it all set up. She's gonna tell you where's available, what's available. The resort personalities are very different, so depending on what you're looking for, she could totally mix and match the resort experience for you. But the best way you can totally support this island is to definitely travel. The people would appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, absolutely. And we appreciate as a travel community um Sandals welcoming us and giving us this preview of the resort.
SPEAKER_00:We're just happy you could call. And uh yeah, so at such short notice, too.
SPEAKER_04:It was an early Christmas present for me.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you to the both of you. Onanda Forbes is a travel expert. You can follow her adventures in Jamaica at the Sandals Duns River Resort on Facebook, Instagram, and ex at Onanda Forbes. Her website is onandaforbes.com. And a special guest, CJ Smith, director of sales for Canada with Sandals Resort. Sandals.com is their website. And uh they are coming to us uh from the Sandals Duns River Resort, one of five that are reopening one of uh um and one of eight sandals resorts in Jamaica. So I appreciate uh your time. I'm I'm sure there's things you need to do and and want to do. So uh appreciate you uh taking the time to do this for us.
SPEAKER_04:Yamanan.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yay. She just keeps surprising me. She keeps surprising me. Thank you so much. Thank you to your listeners. Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_04:Take care, Randy.
SPEAKER_02:This is the Informed Traveler Podcast. I'm Randy Sharman. Just want to remind you of our website, theinformed traveler.org. That's where you can find our contact page if you have any questions or comments about the podcast. You can also email me too with any questions you might have or show segment ideas. My email address is Randy at theinformedraveler.org. You can check out our social media pages as well at facebook.com slash informed traveler, Instagram at informed traveler, or on X at Informed Traveler. That's where you'll find a number of videos and reels from our adventures throughout the year and audio clips from our past shows. Plus, you can sign up for our monthly newsletter. It's released at the beginning of every month. Our December issue is now available. Just go to our website, theinformedraveler.org, click on the newsletter button, and it'll take you right there. Or better yet, you can subscribe to it and have it arrive in your inbox each month. Well, if getting more exercises in your plans for the new year, how about doing a family bike trip? Travel writer Lisa Lucas did just that with her family cycling through the Netherlands. She also wrote about it in The Guardian in an article titled Freewheeling Family Fun in the Netherlands: a cycling and camping trip along the Mass River. And Lisa joins us now to share her experience. Hi, Lisa.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, Randy.
SPEAKER_02:Uh thank you for doing this. It's very nice to chat with you. Uh, you you're a freelance travel and lifestyle writer. How would tell me a bit about uh what got you into the uh the travel writing world?
SPEAKER_01:I have always been a passionate uh traveler, and I just, you know, I'm so excited about always telling people you should go on this adventure, that adventure. And uh I started blogging a while ago, and then I just started pitching travel editors and and it um it became addictive. The dopamine hits of getting uh exciting adventures uh published and people saying, Oh, I should go and do that too. It's too much, too exciting.
SPEAKER_02:Well, uh, and one of the exciting adventures that you did write about for The Guardian, it's on the Guardian website, thegardian.com. Free freewheeling family fun in the Netherlands, a psyching, a cycling and camping trip along the Moss River. So uh before we get into the nuts and bolts of the actual trip, though, uh, was this the first time that you kind of thought you're gonna go on a family adventure, or have you done things similar before that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, so I've always done bike adventures. And so I biked the Trans America from uh Virginia out to um Oregon and down to LA uh when I was when I was around 20. And then I became a cycling addict and went across Europe. And so as soon as I knew I was pregnant, I said, oh man, I've got to get these kids on bikes. And so um we have always done a lot of uh adventures. One early adventure with the kids on bikes was going on the Canal du Midi in the south of France. Um, and it's a canal toau path. And we took them when they were one and three in a trailer. Um, and so we self supported on um you start. In Toulouse, and we went to set um and just had the the girls in in the back in the trailer, and that was um that was fun, but of course, it didn't require any of their own uh motivation because we just strapped them in there. Um and we've always done a lot of uh outdoor adventures, and actually, this this adventure took place on uh a year, a gap year, where we were traveling uh away from London, where we live, uh for a year to Japan, New York, and the Netherlands.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Uh, and we should say, yes, you're based in London. So when you talk about going to France and and to the Netherlands, it's it's an easy hop over. Uh is the is the area that we're talking about in like we're going to talk about in the nether in the Netherlands, is that a popular area for for uh Europeans in general just to do cycling trips, or is it just anywhere in Europe? It seems to me it's a lot easier to do cycling trips in Europe than it is in North America.
SPEAKER_01:It is, uh specifically because they have a a lot of mapped cycling routes. And so there's the whole Euro Velo network that has nearly 20 mapped cycling routes that are all dotted all across Europe. And you can buy maps to see these established routes, and they will give you some direction on camping, hotels, um, some cafes and restaurants. And usually along those routes, there are um there's a lot of infrastructure set up. And so you can rent bikes, and there are you you don't have to just make it up as you go along, like you would if you were just navigating across across Canada.
SPEAKER_02:Uh so let's talk about the trip. Where did it uh it was a few months ago, if I um reading the article correctly, uh obviously in the summertime. And uh so so where did you start? Uh how did it all begin?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so this was the first really long-distance bike trip that we did as a family. And so we were living in Leiden in the Netherlands, and we had these, and we we had long-term run at um bikes, and we did a lot of biking uh from our house out to out to the ocean. And you know, the Netherlands is just networked with bike paths in every direction. I mean, it's really, really miraculous for somebody that grew up. Uh I grew up in Ohio, and we had to go in a car to get milk.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so I have a real appreciation for the amount of dedication it takes for a country to set up bike paths so and sidewalks uh so that you are able to move as a person uh to go and get the things you need and and kind of have this kind of leisure activity. And really, honestly, you could bike from Amsterdam to Belgium without without your phone, without a map, just using the signposting and and and getting down there on on bike paths. That's how extensive their paths are. But they on top of that, they also have a number of established like leisure paths. And so when we were planning to live there, I was fixated on finding the path that would be easy enough for uh my my darling girls, and they were seven and nine um at the at the time of the ride. And they, you know, they they're hardy, but you know, any any seven-year-old, you know, there's you know, it's it's a negotiation.
SPEAKER_02:So they have their limits. It's a negotiation.
SPEAKER_01:There's a lot of treats involved. Uh bribery. But no, they like doing family adventures, but um I knew that it had to be flat, that we were gonna go self-support it. And so I was looking, okay, what is flat? What is the most beautiful route we can take in the Netherlands? And so I was, you know, just asking around, and everyone, everyone really pointed me towards uh the mass route. And uh, and so that is why we decided on this route, you know, among all the others, there were really there are there were probably five in contention. You can cycle right along the coast, you know, all the way, all the way over to Germany. There are lots of options for um, you know, this low-key family cycling, whether you want to go with kids or uh kind of older adults, so it can be multi-generational.
SPEAKER_02:I like the idea that uh it's flat.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's true. And not only is it flat, but something that I found was really important when we did the Canal du Midi a couple uh or several years ago now is that I thought, okay, well, this is a towpath along a canal. So of course this is going to be flat. But what I didn't what I didn't realize is it's so established with all these beautiful plain trees that actually has a lot of exposed roots. And so not all of it was paved. And I would say in the Netherlands, uh I mean, definitely on this moss route, but on on most of their bike routes, they're all really, really nicely paved in tarmac. And so it's it's one thing to have a protected, segregated bike route, but it's another that it is really um really easy riding on it. And I would say that that's another um another tick for why this is a great place to to do this. But yeah, certainly, yeah, the the elevation grading is just you know minuscule.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's my kind of bike riding. On a paved surface that's flat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. And and actually there are lots of options for getting um electric bikes as well. And so if you are interested in doing long distances, yeah, no, exactly. I mean, that's that's why I I I think that a lot of people they get they might be concerned about the idea of doing, you know, a a bike um holiday, adventure, vacation. But actually, if you take, you know, if you take all of these variables away, like, okay, well, you know, you aren't going, you know, it's it's really it's not gonna be graded, and you can just stop. There's plenty of cafes, you can get an espresso anytime you want, and actually, you know, you might be doing 50k over over the course of a day, but you know, if you're on an electric bike, you can really relax and watch a lot of the you know a scenery, especially if you feel like you're on a pretty protected path as opposed to like fighting with cars on a really on a really busy road. And I've experienced both, and it's a it's a marked difference.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I bet, yeah. And also, like you say, it's it's not like you're in the middle of nowhere. If you want to stop and have something to a snack or something, you can, right? Or bathroom break or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:You know, absolutely. And that's why I really recommend um exploring anyone that is is kind of curious about the Netherlands, and you might want to come and just, you know, go see Amsterdam or Leiden, Delft. But actually consider doing doing it on on bike because um I think you get much closer to like what's actually happening in the culture. And I, you know, it's much easier. If you live in in North America, you think, oh my goodness, this is a real, you know, this is going to be a real endeavor. But I would say that you can, you know, you if you learn more about it, you can recalibrate to what it actually is, which is kind of, you know, like an afternoon, you know, easy, easy ride with a with a nice little sandwich and lots of people are having little, you know, afternoon beer or something like that. So it's it's you know it's like fun and low-key and mapped out, which is really, really important for your for a cycling route, because if you're not, if you're with a family or it's multi-generational, you really don't want to be, you know, messing around with like, oh, did we take a wrong turn?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and it's having that hassle. And so if you take that variable away and there's really like signposts everywhere you go, and you're you're also consulting, you know, a map, then it's it's easy riding and you can actually enjoy the scenery.
SPEAKER_02:And you camped, right? And but but that's you don't necessarily have to do that either, because again, you go back to your point, you're not you're in the middle of nowhere. You can uh you know go to a point and and stop uh at a hotel if you wanted to, but uh tell me about the camping experience now while you're doing your bike ride.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, absolutely. There are all there are options at every price point, whether you're camping or staying in in like BBs or or nice hotels, and they are, you know, it's it's a dense country, and so it's clustered in in all these little villages and and cities that you're going through. Uh, but I I love the camping. Um, it's not everyone's cup of tea. And actually, my husband is a bit of a reluctant camper, um, but uh he's learned over the years that there are benefits from camping because okay, this is what I will say is that if you if you like an adventure, then if you just have your your tents and your um sleeping bags on the back of your bike, then you can feel like you're in this very protected, you know, country where you're you're on this route that's all very established. And so you get to feel a little bit like, oh, well, we could go here, or we could, you know, if we're really energetic, we can go, you know, 20 more kilometers and and end up over there. And um, you know, a lot of times things are very flexible and you can just, you know, book in um on the day, and it's and it's relatively easy. We okay, I felt confident enough that with two little girls that we could just you know pave our own way. And we didn't pre-book any of the campsites, it was about trailblazing and having our own adventure. And so it was really, it was really okay. So let's see how this goes. If they are gonna be strong enough, it depends on is it raining, is it gonna be really too hot? You know, how is that how is everything going to sit on the day? And then let as we get further into the afternoon, then we have to, you know, settle on where we're gonna go. Um, and so I wouldn't say that it's just you can, you know, everywhere you look, it's easy. You know, you have to look up and be like, okay, well, there's a campsite there, there's a campsite. But I I will say that if you are a cyclist, a biker, or or a walker, there are lots of people that are also um walking with packs, you know, all over Europe. There are all these footpaths, um, uh public area, uh public paths through even private land. And so I would say that there's these hiker-biker areas, and you can't depend on every campsite having them, but a lot of times they're incredibly flexible. If you just turn up on a bike with your own tent, then you know, they say, Oh yeah, give us, you know, they would say uh 20 uh 25 euros, and then you can all just, you know, pitch your tent and sleep there for the night, and then get up the next morning and and continue on. And so they they are used to seeing enough self-supported cyclists and hikers that there is a little bit of um flexibility.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, cool. Um, now what about food? Did you take food with you or were you planning on doing your own meals? I mean, now you're now you're really getting into uh packing a lot of stuff, aren't you?
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, so I'm a I'm a minimalist. I always think, okay, less is more. Um, and um the the thing is that on longer bike uh rides that I've taken, especially across the US, um I definitely had a stove and I was uh you know cooking every night and that was part of the ritual. However, when traveling with kids, what we tend to do is we tend to eat out for one big meal. Um, part partially because it's very time consuming to eat out. And so we kind of plan, okay, so are we gonna go for you know a big you know brunch, or are we gonna go and and try to get all of our mileage done and have a like an early finish at like five and have a big dinner, maybe have a beer or something like that. Or um, yeah, so we usually try to plan into the day one big, we're just gonna sit and lounge around and take our time over the meal. And then the other meals, we tend to go to the supermarket and get, you know, a baguette. Uh, we would get you could get like pots of hummus or egg salad or just lots of lunch meat and cheeses, and then you know, layer on the tomatoes and cucumbers and uh and then other staples on other trips would be bagels because they really hold their shape and you can kind of pack those in um and without without smooshing them. And I usually have a uh you know, a thing of peanut butter and maybe some bananas. And so like a peanut butter and banana bagel, that will get that will get you going in the morning. But yeah, I like to I like to focus on picnic food for about two meals and then sit down for kind of a really big, uh nice, relaxed meal. And so that's generally the rhythm. And even when we're we're traveling, um just to regular, you know, throughout throughout Europe, not necessarily cycling, I feel like that is a really nice um pace because if you're sitting down for a heavy meal all the time, it's just too much. And there's so many amazing, um, there's so much amazing food. It's great to, you know, kind of picnic all over the place, and it's really well set up for that. You don't feel like, you know, you're the only one doing it. I mean, for sure, just like gathering gathering some lovely stuff, and you can find picnic benches, and it just feels like, you know, you blend into, you know, the local landscape.
SPEAKER_02:So what like what didn't you like what didn't you know that you wished you knew going into this, or like what would you do differently if you did it all all over again?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, it was unexpectedly hot on the week that we ended up doing this. And so that is the thing. In in Northern Europe, you get uh moderate weather, but there are always these you know fluctuations where it really cranks up to, you know, from from 25 to 30, you know, in the summer, and it's it's hard to predict. And it was boiling. And so I think if I had known that, I would have focused much more on seeking out places that had uh swimming pools because you really need a carrot for uh kids when when the cycling you know gets monotonous or or they get very hot. You can hydrate, you can say, oh, let's have a gelata, let's have a popsicle. Um, but but at some point you really you really have to uh you know dial it up and have something better. And so we we did um after what one day, two days, we really hit this point where we're like, oh my goodness, this is boiling. And so um we became obsessed with finding uh water park um that we could that we could go and they had a campsite uh not far from it. And so um that became our whole uh raison d'etre. So I think that if I had known that it was going to be as hot as it was, I might have um I might have tried to pace our route a little bit more to so we could hit um more local pools and kind of get them more incentive. And honestly, I mean if you're having a good trip, and I don't know if you find this, but I always wish that I had more time. There, I I mean, it's just sort of infinite things I that catch my attention and curiosity, and I want to stop, and I wish we had longer there or here. Um, and and especially with the kids, you know, you want to do fun stuff. I mentioned in this in this Guardian piece about the um high ropes course that they went a couple times. Um, but also we were really close to one of, you know, kind of the Disney world of um of uh the Netherlands that is kind of more offbeat than than than Disney itself, but um and kind of quirky. Um and you know, it was only maybe like 40 euros to get in instead of instead of kind of um half of your salary for the year. Yeah, exactly. So it's so you can you could we could have popped in for for and gone for just a day to one of these things if we had a little bit more time. Um and so I think I would have I would have planned in a little bit more uh more days, so we could have just detoured and just said, oh yeah, we're just gonna go to this theme park for the day and let them uh feel totally carefree. I mean, I think that it's a delicate balance, you know, when you're traveling with a family to say, okay, this is what this is what we all want to do, and this is our schedule, and having the parents lead and just say, Well, this is what we're doing. And also making concessions and making sure that, you know, the kids you don't have um you know are genuinely having fun. And so exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so even if you're gonna have a happy memory instead of saying, remember that time that mom and dad took us on that god-awful bike trip.
SPEAKER_01:They dragged us across the Netherlands. Exactly, exactly. And so I think that for us, even though I'm not I'm not a huge theme park um fan myself, uh, although they've grown on me, uh, I think that, you know, I can I can do that. If my kids are biking across across the country, I can be like, yeah, and I'm just gonna go on this roller coaster with you, and we're just gonna be like ridiculous for a day and just like totally lean into it and enjoy it. And so I think making sure that that you're not so militant about like the mileage that that you lose sight of what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02:You don't want to be like a a drill sergeant or something.
SPEAKER_01:And I think you can it can become a little bit like that. And I know on other bike trips, you know, with other adults, you can, you know, there is some ro camaraderie in the pain. If you're climbing a mountain, like I climbed Kilimajaro once, and you know, there is this element of like, oh, two more miles, we can do this, you know, and and you kind of enjoy collectively that that pain. But you you can't you can't um do that, you know, with with kids. And so you have to, you know, you have to really take a different tact. And I think that that is something that is important for um. Um like cyclists, people that are really interested in doing this kind of bike trip, when they set out to do it and they look at the mileage, don't don't plan it for what you think you could do and just dial it down three quarters. It really has to be a living, breathing project. And you know, what was important to me and what I what I think people should really consider whenever they're doing some sort of adventure like this, especially with kids, is you know, you sort of set your intention. What are we here to do? Yeah, exactly. What do we want to get out of this? And and for this trip, it was really we want to feel like a a team. And we want we want to feel a little bit of like, yeah, we can keep going, we can do it. And we also just want to feel totally we want to and we want to celebrate the success after that happens. And then we also want to feel like, yeah, we're just, you know, we're uh we're having totally unstructured uh time to have fun. And so thinking about how you like really feel like a team and work, celebrate, and have fun, you know, as a team, I think is is crucial.
SPEAKER_02:I think so too. And I think uh too, uh like you only have a small window of opportunity, right? You said your girls were seven and nine. But when they get into be teenagers, they don't want to be doing this. And when they're a little bit younger, it's a lot harder to do. So there is that just that small window of opportunity, don't you think?
SPEAKER_01:You know, absolutely. And I do think that we are in the golden years right now. I think five to twelve. Um, and I think sometimes people don't realize that until after it's over, is is you know, they haven't gone through um they're not at they're not at adolescence yet. They still want to hang out with you. And um they're they're big enough that they can, you know, walk, you know, long distance well, relatively long distances and kind of, you know, you go around the city or or do a small bike ride. And so it really is, I think, the golden time of uh having a family where you know you build your memories. And that's why, and that's why kids come back when they're adults, they come back because of these traditions and these things that you you set up when they're when they were small. And so I would say that, you know, going on something like this or climbing a mountain together, you know, it's not just, you know, going on a it's not just going on a vacation. Like this is the kind of this is the kind of experience that you have together that that really kids look back on and they and they feel bound to you in a different way than if you are are just sitting on the beach together, which I also like doing.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. You can have the balance. People can read about uh freewheeling family fun in the Netherlands, a cycling and camping trip along the Maas River on theguardian thegardian.com. The author is uh Lisa Lucas, freelance travel and lifestyle writer, and her website, the distance to travel.com. But uh it was a lot of fun chatting with you, Lisa. I really do appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much, Randy. Fantastic to chat to you.
SPEAKER_02:And that is our show for this week. If you have comments or questions, we'd love to hear from you. If you have a show idea, send that along as well. My email is Randy at the informedtraveler.org. If you like what you heard, tell a friend. You can check out our website too at the informed traveler.org. In the meantime, thanks for listening. Travel safe and be an informed traveler.