Summer Travel Concerns & MSC World America Review

Summer travel is on the minds of many these days and with it many concerns and questions so on this week's show Travel Expert Onanta Forbes will join me to discuss what those concerns might be. And the Cruise Guru, David Yeskel who is often a guest on our show, will stop by to give us his review of the MSC World America. It's one of MSC Cruises newest ships so we'll get the lowdown from David.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Informed Traveler Podcast, a weekly travel podcast where our goal is to help you become a more informed traveler. And I'm your host, Randy Sharman. Summer travel is on the minds of many these days, and with it, many concerns and questions. So in a few seconds, travel expert Onanta Forbes will join me to discuss what those concerns might be. And the cruise guru, David Yeskel, who is often a guest on our show, will stop by to give us his review of the MSC World America. It's one of MSC Cruise's newest ships. We'll get the lowdown from David. But first, let's kick things off chatting with travel expert Onanta Forbes, who joins us each week to

Summer Travel Concerns

SPEAKER_04 0:47

discuss some of the latest travel news and trends and travel tips in general. You can follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and ex at Onanta Forbes. OnetaForbes.com is her website. Hello, Onanta. We haven't chatted for a while, so how have you been?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

All is well. I've been lucky to have been traveling, but always good to come home as well. Um, and that's, you know, we're looking forward to summer, and Canadians are thinking about traveling as well for the summer break.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Well, exactly. I think everybody, uh, regardless of how you want to define it, is going to probably go somewhere, whether it's uh a day trip, a few days here, or maybe uh a longer vacation to Europe. Europe always seems to be popular in the summer. So uh, but there's lots of concerns out there, as long as it seems in the travel industry. It's never easy. Uh, what are you hearing uh in the rumblings of your of your with your uh colleagues and uh with your clients?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Well, people still want to travel. They really do. But I think they're gonna be or they are more intentional about how they choose to travel. So there, because there you're right, there is so much going on in the world right now, um, rising airfare, accommodation costs, the fuel prices, exchange rates. So overall travel expenses are pushing many Canadians to think how and where they're gonna travel. So rather than canceling vacations altogether, more becoming more selective and strategic, and they're prioritizing value and looking ways to stretch their budget. Um, at the same time, you know, as you say, there's lots going on, and that includes flight delays, cancellation, airline route reductions, um, new border screening in Europe. So it's it's it's a lot going on and it makes people stop and and think about what they should do. And um what we're seeing is that um they're looking at ways to cut their costs, right? But still have a good holiday. But one thing I recommend is that you don't skimp on insurance because what was once viewed as optional is increasingly considered to be essential, especially um during climate events or operational disruptions and um unexpected travel interruption. So I always think make sure you have emergency hospital medical insurance and trip cancellation, whether it covers interruption, disruption, and cancellation. And yes, you know, there's different things that have really played in the foremost of people's mind, like this um fuel um shortage. And now a couple of weeks ago, ManuLife and other travel providers are saying this is a known event. So if you booked prior to them saying it was a known event and you were affected by um a change due to the the uh fuel uh surcharges, um, you'd be covered. But now it isn't. It isn't gonna be covered if you book now and you buy insurance. So that's why I always say to clients, look at insurance covers coverage that covers you for counsel for any reason. Because it could be any reason, right? You don't have to um be concerned about what the reason is. So um lots of things going on, lots of uh reasons um to change the way you want to travel. But that you know bodes good for domestic travel within Canada because um uh the prices, you know, yes, travel in Canada is never ever cheap cheap, but um, you know, working with your travel advisor, they can, if you know they know where you want to travel to, they can keep an eye on trends and maybe airlines that are offering um nice rates to different places, uh, the opportunity to not worry about the uh exchange rate.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

Um I just I just wanted to back up just a little bit with the travel insurance. Um and you're talking about cancel for any reason. That is prior to your trip, correct? If I if I'm correct in my insurance knowledge, which is limited, but uh which is fine, but it's when you're already at your destination, uh, what if there is uh a flight delay or cancellation due to a fuel shortage? It's like it's one thing to be able to cancel before you go away. It's when you're already at your destination where you can really get into some sticky situations.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Right. And and you and it's right, you're right. It is a it's a complex scenario because when you're at destination and you are affected, um, what are you affected by and what are you going to be covered by? So it's always good to read the fine print of your insurance policy. That question isn't a black and white question to answer because it really does depend on your scenario and where you're at and what's happening. Um, a lot of the time, and that this is speaking from my own personal experience and my guests who are traveling and have been affected by the fuel surcharge and they're the airline they're going on have either reduced the routes or canceled the routes altogether. Um, we usually know before they go to be able to address it. It's not really at destination that I'm seeing that the fuels, the uh jet uh fuel scenario is affecting people. So it's it's a situation that we all look at independently and um look at see how we can uh help the guests at destination with the different suppliers involved. And that's another thing that um I'm finding is say you're going on a river cruise and we book your air through the river cruise company. That's where the river cruise company really helps out because they have broad contracts with different airlines that they can help you get to your destination or reroute you. And it's just, and then they know where you're going as far as the cruise. So that's where I'm finding um good planning comes into effect because we're dealing with one source to help you um with many components of your vacation.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

And I guess the the bottom line on all of what we're talking about is cost. Uh so regardless of what your budget is, uh you can make adjustments if you instead of staying for a week somewhere, maybe stay for five days, shorten it up, instead of flying, maybe drive, although the price of gas isn't uh quite what it used to be a year ago. Uh but yeah, it it's just it seems to me that uh out of all these factors, it's the cost that's gonna just make the the final decision of what people are gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I think that's a very valid point. Um, because you know, having at home your your, I guess, for the lack of a better word, your domestic budget being affected, that uh that affects travel because it's a um it's something that it's in my life, yeah, it is mandatory, but not in everybody's life. Like they don't have to travel, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:05

No, this is true.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

It's discretionary, right? So, so it, you know, if you have increasing costs in your, you know, in your everyday life, it may affect going on a trip or how you go on a trip. But like you say, there's lots of ways to address it. Um, you know, thinking maybe, maybe not an international uh destination this year, or maybe going in a different time of year instead of summer. Go off season, fall, maybe you know, uh a winter holiday. Uh, because that's where it the the the crowds aren't there, it's a lower time period, and there's very um competitive rates out there. The cruise market is so competitive. There's so many cruise ships out there that are all vying for your dollar and your business that uh cruising is becoming very attractive. Lots of repeat clients go on cruising. Now, with river cruising, there's different options. Granted, it's seasonal, but um there's there's there's different ways to to still take advantage of traveling at home and abroad.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Mm-hmm. And well, uh for uh just review uh the new European entry uh requirements for us.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

It's called EES, it's exit and entry um system. And instead of um you know going to a customs officer and presenting your passport, it's all on biometrics now. So you'd go to these kiosks and you'd scan your passports, they take a picture, and it's supposed to encourage um easier flow through connecting points, uh, your first connecting point or your first destination in Europe. However, it um it's it's not flawless. We have this been seeing some definite um delays and some backups in crowds, you know, uh getting through the point. And in some countries, such as uh Portugal, they've actually kind of scrapped it because there were so many delays and um concerns about people getting to their next point or getting into the country. So always be pack your patience because that's travel these days.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

This is true.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

You know, no matter what component or are or uh hyper travel, uh sometimes it's just not an easy flow. So definitely try to be flexible and um be patient uh because you're gonna need it at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

And we've talked about this before too. Uh secondary locations also may have uh a little be less expensive and as you pointed out too, uh less crowded. So for like, for example, instead of Paris or I don't know, somewhere else in France that might be a little bit cheaper or or less crowded, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Absolutely. And you know, it's it's actually not bad. Like, yes, we've here we hear in the uh marketplace that uh airlines are canceling or changing their routes um to different places. But you know, especially from Calgary, we have a really good um international gateway to different countries throughout the world. So yeah, look at the look at the options that are there to um to think about different different stays and different destinations to still have a great trip wherever you know you're thinking that that's gonna be the opportunity to go. Now, I wanted to share with you, like people are definitely looking at being more budget conscious, but they do splurge. Like it's it's still people still want that memory, that unique culinary experience or that meaningful um excursion. So, yes, yeah, we're looking at our budget, but still we want to enjoy ourselves when we're away.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Well, yeah, we want to get value for our dollar, I think is probably uh a way of putting it. Uh and if we see value, uh then maybe you will spend a little bit more if that's the experience that you want to uh enjoy, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Right. And absolutely. And I think people are also thinking and recognizing the world can change on a dime. So they want to experience it now versus later.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Well, yes, exactly. That too. Anything else uh that you're hearing or want to add?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Um, I I really I really want to encourage people to to do their research, work with a travel professional, because things change all the time. And what I'm seeing, or what I see in the media and such, in you know, in news articles is that, you know, I think people look at um AI to get some ideas or maybe to do some research, but AI isn't always accurate. So be very careful about how you go forth um with your trip. Like I know it's really easy to do your own thing and to be independent in your travel, but just be cautious that not all advice that you find on the internet is accurate.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Really? I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

You only get what you put in.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Onantha Forbes is a travel expert. You can follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and ex at Onanta Forbes. And you can check out her website too, uh, OnantaForbes.com, where she has a great article on traveling to the Philippines, uh, which we were chatting about uh not too long ago. So uh great chatting with you, Onanta. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Take care. Have a good week, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

This is the Informed Traveler Podcast. I'm Randy Sharman. Just want to remind you of our website, theinformedraveler.org. That's where you can find our contact page if you have any questions or comments about the podcast. You could also email me too with any questions you might have or show segment ideas. My email address is randy at the informedtraveler.org. And you can check out our social media pages too at facebook.com slash informed traveler, Instagram at informed traveler, or on X at InformTraveler. That's where you'll find a number of videos and photos from our recent visit to Fort Lauderdale and other interviews and stories throughout the year. Plus, you can sign up for our monthly newsletter. It's released at the beginning of every month. Our May issue is available now. Just go to our website, the informedtraveler.org, click on the newsletter button, and it'll take you right there. Or better yet, you can subscribe to it and have it arrive in your inbox each month. Well, back in April of last

MSC World America Review

SPEAKER_04 14:54

year, MSC Cruises launched one of its newer ships, the MSC World America. And recently, David Yeskel, the Cruise Guru, sailed on it. And David joins us now to share his experience. You can follow his adventures on X at Cruise Guru, and his website is oceancruise.guru. Hi, David. Always nice to chat with you.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Same here, good to be back.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

We are going to talk about the MSC World America. What were your expectations going in? I know you've sailed on MSc before, and what were your were your um thoughts coming off?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Uh you know, I had high expectations because I actually think a lot of this cruise line and and and their ships, um, I've sailed on quite a few of them before. Um, you know, I'd say 10, 12 years ago, they were a disruptor in the industry, and uh they've built so many ships and and and they turn them out so fast. And they're all great and very and different from the others in their competitive set. You know, the competitive set is the can are the contemporary brands, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian. And um their onboard product is very different, its skew's a little more European, um and the ships are beautiful. Uh and this is their newest ship class, the world class. So they have two so far. Um MSc World Europa was first, MSC World America, of course, that I was just on. Two more coming, um, MSc World Asia, MSC World Atlantic, and then the possibility of four more in the years following. So I think they have a great platform here.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

Uh so I guess uh it met your expectations.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

It really did. I really did. So I I could tell you, not only is the ship gorgeous looking, but um it's very practically laid out, which is important for a mega ship, so that you know, for the first three days of the voyage, some some people on other ships are just trying to find their way around. And and and part of the way they do that is there's a three-deck uh World Galleria, which runs almost the length of the entire ship. And it looks like um an upscale shopping mall. When you look at it, it's it's just beautiful. But most of the ship's food and beverage outlets and a lot of the public rooms are located in or just off of the World Galleria. So it's easy to find everything. Plus, it's there's great people watching on the deck six, which is the lowest deck, uh it's uh it's like a promenade. Uh it's just great. It's it's really awesome.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Let's talk about just the onboard experience. Uh I know, like we mentioned, you've sailed on MSc before, so you kind of knew what you what to expect going in, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So MSC ships, um, they describe them, the company describes them as a mix of European flair and American comfort. And so because they're a European company, um, they call themselves Mediterranean. They're really more Italian focused. Um, they draw a lot of European visitors, even on their ships sailing out of the US ports. So, for instance, on my MSc World America voyage, I'd say they were about 40% Europeans. So it makes the atmosphere different, it's a little more interesting. Um and the foods also skews a little more Mediterranean. So since they're Italian, of course, the pizzas are great, the pastas are great every day. There's a choice of four different types of pizza. There are multiple new pastas aboard every day. Uh the food's very good. Um also, you know, appeals to Americans too. I mean, there's a there's a burger joint aboard, plenty of things on the menus in the restaurants, of course, appeal appeal to North American visitors. But uh the the little bit of European flair, I think, makes it a much more interesting mix. Even the shows are less language dependent, so they can appeal to everyone. Um and I think that mixture of the European flair with American comfort works very well.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Uh so where did you go, by the way?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

So this was a um Eastern European, uh, I'm sorry, Eastern Caribbean itinerary, uh round trip from Miami, the ship sails year-round round trip from Miami, seven-day Eastern Caribbean, followed by a seven-day Western Caribbean. They alternate. So this was San Juan, St. Thomas, and their private island, um, MSC Ocean K, which is which is just great. It's this massive is private island, lots of great beaches, um, good food options sprinkled throughout. Um, and they're and they're continually upgrading that private island. So that that competes, their private island, and I think their this ship competes very well in their competitive set, especially against Royal Caribbean's icon new icon class ships. Um big, you know, 5,000 plus passengers. The the the top deck is an amusement park. It's it's got an aquapark, slides, a sports plex with with bumper cars, a ropes course, this wild ride called the cliffhanger that's an over-the-water swing. Um great for families, um you know, 21 decks. It's it's massive. But it's fun. It's fun, very like I said, very practically laid out. The shows are great. Um, the ship's just a lot of fun, and I think the food's very good.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Um, so would you know that it's a big mega ship, you know what I mean? Like because they're lineups to to go on the cliffhanger, for example, or to do some of the the activities.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

So you do notice that, of course, um in some areas, um, you know, the buffets get the buffet gets very busy, of course, when the ship is at sea for say breakfast and lunch. But what they've done to spread out the the the passenger load is they have two buffets almost almost nearly identical on two decks. So on deck 18 and 19, they have two buffets, and and because of that, it helps spread out the passenger load. And um it's not too bad. So yes, it's crowded, but I've never had a problem finding a seat all a week. And I was on board, of course, like everybody else was on the sea days. Didn't have a problem finding a seat, um, didn't wait long to get an item from the you know from the from the from the buffet. So they do a very good job of managing the flow. Um you know, you do notice it getting on and off the ship. That's where the backups occur. Yeah um the backups are long sometimes, especially getting back on if everybody's coming back to the ship at 4 p.m., say for to sail at 5 p.m. You notice it there. But otherwise, there are enough spaces aboard the ship to spread out, uh, and because of that, you don't feel uh the crowd.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

Uh there to me, there's always two types of cruisers. There's one that just cruises for the ship, they love the ship, and being on the ship, and then there's the people that go for The destinations. This sounds to me that it would it would satisfy the type of person that just goes for the ship experience more so than uh the itinerary.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Well, absolutely, absolutely. So while while a lot of people have been to these ports already, you know, these frequently visited Caribbean ports, um, I'd say it is more about the ship. It is more about the ship, and and there's so much to do on board the ship. There's so many activities and and and the shows are great. There's two two big shows every night, one in the main showroom, one in the Panorama Lounge, which is all the way aft. I saw all of them. Uh they were great. Uh really, really great. They they use this um third-party company that produces a lot of their shows from Europe. Um, they do a great job. So there's so much to do on the ship. The ship is the destination, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Uh and and they're on their private island, which they run very well. So those two things just make it um, you know, a lot of fun. And I mean, there's speakeasy aboard that's so cool and it's hard to get to. I'll just tell you a little bit about that. It was really cool. So the speakeasy, the MSC speakeasy is is not easy to get to. You have to find out about it. Speak not so easy. Speak not so easy, which is the way a speakeasy should be, right? It should be easy. So you have to get this this coin, this special coin from a bartender, and then call a number to make a reservation, and then you're told what time to show up at this there's a red phone booth on deck six. You show up in a phone booth, lift up the lift up the phone, call a certain number, and then they open a back door, and you walk down three or four decks through crew decks, by the way, to get to the the door of the speakeasy. And once you get inside, it's it's so much fun. It's 1920s prohibition themed. It's like worn furniture, worn-out rugs, a jazz band playing, specialty drinks. It's a cool experience. And there are, believe me, everybody's got speakeasy now, speakeasy now all all over.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

But this one is really cool and keeps to the theme of the you know prohibition there of speakeasy.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

Is it big? Like is like is how many people would it's not too big.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

No, it's not too big. So they went to the city.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

This is like a speakeasy where they're small and they're relatively small, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Hidden away, and uh you couldn't get to it on your own. I can say that.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Uh one of the things that you've discussed in the past with MSC is yacht club. So uh what's the yacht club experience on uh the world America?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

The yacht club experience is they keep building their yacht clubs bigger and bigger. So this is the ship within a ship luxury complex. So it's key card-controlled, multiple decks, um, an all-suite, all-suite accommodation serviced by butlers. And if you're in yacht club, you actually never have to leave. You you've got everything there. There's a dedicated lounge, a dedicated restaurant, uh actually two dedicated restaurants, a dedicated sun deck, a pool grill, a pool. And so it's perfect for people who want a little more or a lot more luxury, I should say, that's available on the general ship, on the main ship. And great for multi-gen families, um, because it it provides a lot of options. So you can never leave the yacht club if you want to remain in your in your serene enclave. But what I've done in the past is I go out on the rest of the ship and take advantage of the big shows, the casinos, some of the other restaurants, the nightlife. But then you can come back to your serene luxury enclave whenever you want to.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

And so it's great.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I notice a lot of multi-gen families who, you know, grandparents traveling with their children and the grandchildren. Everybody can go do their own thing during the day, do whatever they want, and then come back at night for dinner. Everybody gets together for dinner at night. So I think they do a great job at this. I I think the the the Yacht Club product is is there's only one other cruise line that does something similar. That's Norwegian, and theirs is the Haven. Very similar setup. And it it offers Yacht Club offers some, I think, some distinct advantages over the competition in the luxury set segment of the industry. Like they're essentially competing with Yacht Club Legion Explorer journeys, you know, Silversea, Crystal, Seaborne against those luxury products. Their price point starts out a little lower than those, but the advantages they offer are the advantages of the larger ship outside of the yacht club to do all these activities. Whereas some of the other some of the luxury lines will accommodate families, a few of them accommodate families, but the kids get bored because there isn't as much to do on those ships, obviously, for families. So they have that advantage of offering both the luxury, the luxury enclave and the rest of the mega ship for and everything that's involved there.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Uh let's talk about a little bit about um one of the other ships, the MSC ships, the uh see if I pronounce this this correctly, the Poesia. Poesia, yes. Yes. Let's talk just briefly about that one now.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Sure, sure. So this is one of their one of the MSc's older ships, MSC Poesia, that they sent to a shipyard in Malta a few months ago for a refit, and they put MSC Yacht Club on this ship. So where there was previously the gym and some cabins, uh, they completely re-refit it, took those out, and installed a yacht club along with the pool area, the restaurant, the lounge, um, you know, the front of the ship to where it is on their other ships. And the reason why the ship got a substantial refit was because this is going to be MSC's first ship in Alaska. So first season, they haven't sailed out of Alaska before. And I got to board the ship when it was coming through um LA last week um just to get a look at these new areas aboard. And it was on the way to Seattle, of course. And um, it looks great. The yacht club, it's just a slightly sized-down version of the one like an MSC World America because this is a much smaller ship. It's a mid-sized ship, about 2,500 guests, and um, it looked great. Uh, they upgraded some of the other areas. They added a couple of specialty restaurants that are also on other ships in the fleet. And so they wanted to, for their first ship in Alaska and their first shot at that market, you know. Of course, they wanted to have uh an upgraded product there, and um the ship looks great and it's perfect size for Alaska, of course. It's a little smaller to get into those ports. Um, and so the Poes Toesilla is now sailing out of Seattle, and this past week was the first was the first sailing for the line. So it's it's it's a big deal for MSc to you know to have another home port in the U.S. and that's Seattle.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

And another option for consumers as well. Uh that they like the MSC product, right? And want to go to Oklahoma. Exactly. Yeah. Um, I I'm gonna assume that your uh cruise on the World America was before the Henta virus um outbreak. Yes. Any thoughts on that? Uh like to me, cruisers are cruisers and it doesn't matter. And I think people if if they kind of waffled on taking a cruise, this is just another uh thing in their back pocket to say, well, what about this? Uh what are your what are your thoughts on the whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, so uh so I mean I think people who've cruised, I could, I think, understand that this was really a rare one-off incident, but you know, affecting a niche player. This is oceanwide expeditions, this expedition uh cruise ship supplier, affecting you know, a niche part of the industry in a remote part of the world where there was a perfect storm of uh of you know hantavirus infection that occurred be likely before this couple got on the ship. And this just happened to be, likely happened to be the one the one variety of this virus that transfers, that transmits between humans. So all those things added up to a perfect storm that will not reoccur. And so I think people who haven't cruised need to understand what a one-off rare incident this was and and and not read anything further into it. And I don't think it's gonna affect forward bookings in the industry. Um, you know, it's gonna have a short-term ripple effect on perception, certainly. But um, I I don't think it's gonna have any kind of long-term effect, and uh it it there's a very good chance that it will not reoccur.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Yeah. I and I think people should know too that the CDC has higher, stricter standards for the cruise industry than it does for any other part of the hospitality industry. That's true, right? So um, you know, when you not to negate the the thing that happened uh with the hantavirus or noravirus or anything like that. It's this that they have to report uh at a much stricter level any kind of those instances, correct?

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Exactly, exactly. And um cruise lines are re required to report any infections that that affect more than 3% of guests and crew, and the ships are inspected twice a year. I can tell you they're rigorously inspected by CDC inspectors. This is the ships that visit U.S. ports, of course, um, on using hundreds of criteria to evaluate their scores. And other countries also have their you know rigorous inspection procedures. So ships are clean, they're kept that way for obviously everyone's everyone's safety and health. And um, like I said, the Hanavirus incident was really a one-off incident that that doesn't reflect the industry as a whole and shouldn't deter prospective cruisers from from choosing a cruise vacation.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

We used to have a big party to celebrate if we when we passed the uh CDC inspection. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It was a big deal.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

It was a big deal, exactly. David Yeskel is the cruise guru. You can check out his website, oceancruise.guru. Follow him on an X at cruise guru. Appreciate your time, David. It's always great to chat with you. Oh, thanks for having me, Randy. Great to talk to you. Comments and questions, we'd love to hear from you. If you have a chill ideas in the middle of them as well, my email is randy at the informedcrambler.org. If you like the email randy, you can check out our website too at the informedcrambler.org. In the meantime, thanks for listening to Tramble Today and be an informed crambler.